Wow, this was long, but I have zero regrets about the time it took to read it. You have poured your heart into this. (I will also admit that my heart broke all over again from the very beginning when you talked about your trips to the National Parks because it just never occurred to me that my daughter could have this taken away from her.)
YES. Thank you for naming names and also drawing out the concepts. It's not just about one person or a few people, but how these "good" evangelicals twist rhetoric to seem reasonable in their bigotry. They don't live up to their own claims about their work or criticisms of others that give them a platform, and it is right and necessary to point that out in their own terms and quotations! We aren't asking them to live by our expectations, but at minimum, to meet their own professed goals and the goals of the work they are widely praised for.
So many people go "We can't expect everyone to agree with us on EVERYTHING" and the agree-to-disagree "everything" issue is like, should women have equal rights in society to men or should churches discriminate against gay people or should trans people be allowed to simply live in peace. I've heard these people speak, met them in person once or twice, and/or edited bits and bobs of their work when I was in religious media. I promise they are not "in process," going to change, or holding these views out of obligation. We have to believe people when they say they are against us, regardless of what other work they do or the more conservative people they call out. Grateful for that, sure, but we can stop pretending that Roys, Prior, Moore, French, Cosper, etc. are worthy of platforming, recommending, and supporting because of "secondary issues" or "agree to disagree" or "that doesn't affect me as a straight cis allo person so *shrug Not my problem!" Surely we can do better.
“We have to believe people when they say they are against us, regardless of what other work they do or the more conservative people they call out.” I could not agree more, and your experience really helps support that conclusion.
“We aren't asking them to live by our expectations, but at minimum, to meet their own professed goals and the goals of the work they are widely praised for.” This was such a disheartening part of writing this one: just how often Julie’s own words call her out. I could fill an entire article with just those quotes and title it “Julie Roys speaks out against Julie Roys.”
And it makes me so sad, for someone to clearly understand that abuse exists, but then to fail to examine the ways they participate in it.
(Also, fyi, I looked for a quote from you about Julie but didn’t find an easy-to-use one, but I am thankful for your support over the course of my writing about her!)
Thank you you for your work and your scrupulous attention to detail and nuance Celeste. I pray you words will be widely read and will be listened to by all who need to hear them.
Bravo, Celeste! Once again, you've proven a clear-minded and even representation of the facts of the case at hand. I hope Roys will take your offer. It's more than fair.
Reading this makes me weep... I knew, discipled, and encouraged Richard Ackerman in my last two years of college education. The extremism I attempted to counter through our friendship only seemed to grow. Days like this make me realize how much damage I did to my own life and the lives of others before I finished deconstructing and reconstructing.
Wow, this was long, but I have zero regrets about the time it took to read it. You have poured your heart into this. (I will also admit that my heart broke all over again from the very beginning when you talked about your trips to the National Parks because it just never occurred to me that my daughter could have this taken away from her.)
Thank you! And yes it’s so heartbreaking what is happening to trans people in this country 😭
YES. Thank you for naming names and also drawing out the concepts. It's not just about one person or a few people, but how these "good" evangelicals twist rhetoric to seem reasonable in their bigotry. They don't live up to their own claims about their work or criticisms of others that give them a platform, and it is right and necessary to point that out in their own terms and quotations! We aren't asking them to live by our expectations, but at minimum, to meet their own professed goals and the goals of the work they are widely praised for.
So many people go "We can't expect everyone to agree with us on EVERYTHING" and the agree-to-disagree "everything" issue is like, should women have equal rights in society to men or should churches discriminate against gay people or should trans people be allowed to simply live in peace. I've heard these people speak, met them in person once or twice, and/or edited bits and bobs of their work when I was in religious media. I promise they are not "in process," going to change, or holding these views out of obligation. We have to believe people when they say they are against us, regardless of what other work they do or the more conservative people they call out. Grateful for that, sure, but we can stop pretending that Roys, Prior, Moore, French, Cosper, etc. are worthy of platforming, recommending, and supporting because of "secondary issues" or "agree to disagree" or "that doesn't affect me as a straight cis allo person so *shrug Not my problem!" Surely we can do better.
Thank you, Jenna!
“We have to believe people when they say they are against us, regardless of what other work they do or the more conservative people they call out.” I could not agree more, and your experience really helps support that conclusion.
“We aren't asking them to live by our expectations, but at minimum, to meet their own professed goals and the goals of the work they are widely praised for.” This was such a disheartening part of writing this one: just how often Julie’s own words call her out. I could fill an entire article with just those quotes and title it “Julie Roys speaks out against Julie Roys.”
And it makes me so sad, for someone to clearly understand that abuse exists, but then to fail to examine the ways they participate in it.
(Also, fyi, I looked for a quote from you about Julie but didn’t find an easy-to-use one, but I am thankful for your support over the course of my writing about her!)
Yes!
No worries, I have mainly boosted y'all, especially Krispen
Thank you you for your work and your scrupulous attention to detail and nuance Celeste. I pray you words will be widely read and will be listened to by all who need to hear them.
Bravo, Celeste! Once again, you've proven a clear-minded and even representation of the facts of the case at hand. I hope Roys will take your offer. It's more than fair.
Reading this makes me weep... I knew, discipled, and encouraged Richard Ackerman in my last two years of college education. The extremism I attempted to counter through our friendship only seemed to grow. Days like this make me realize how much damage I did to my own life and the lives of others before I finished deconstructing and reconstructing.
All we can do is grow. I did so much damage in the past, as well.
And I can only imagine what it’s like to see Ackerman turn into what he is now, given your relationship with him.
I still run into him on occasion but he seems more with drawn from people outside his little group
I appreciate this detailed update. I think of you and many of the issues you've raised whenever I see something by Roys.